Well you got me with this one. I really do think you're on to something, but I had one thought (more of a hobby horse, really), but I feel like I should address it:
I've spent the last couple years making wine in a quiet corner of Bordeaux where most locals don't even know the appellation exists. Before that, I made wine in Texas. And before that, Long Island. So I'm not exactly steeped in prestige, but I've had a front-row seat to what happens when people confuse that for quality.
I get what you're saying. Wine absolutely should be challenging. It should reward curiosity. And there's nothing snobbish about expecting people to give a damn. But I flinch a little at the hierarchy part, probably because I've just spent multiple essays taking swings at treating classifications like gospel when half of them were drawn up by politicians, not palates.
Here's the thing you get right: effort should be rewarded. But in Bordeaux, I've watched people put tremendous effort into learning all the wrong things. They can recite the 1855 Classification by heart but can't taste the difference between a wine that's alive and one that's technically correct but soulless. That's not discernment...that's memorization.
The hierarchy I want rewards understanding terroir over marketing budgets. Pomerol makes sense to me, it's expensive because the wines are genuinely distinctive, rooted in a place that can't be replicated. But then you have someone charging €30,000 a bottle for what amounts to performance art, or Saint-Émilion's classification that gets reshuffled every decade like a deck of cards.
I've poured wines in million-euro tasting rooms that were dead behind the eyes, wines engineered for scores and stories, chasing trends instead of expressing place. I've also drunk wines that made me rethink what a vineyard could taste like, regardless of what was written on the label.
So yeah, let's raise the bar. Let's reward people for recognizing quality wherever it comes from, whether it's a Grand Cru that's earned its reputation over centuries or a Côtes de Bourg that's just honest about what it is. But let's make sure we're building expertise that actually serves the wine, not just the industry that sells it.
I should probably end this here before I keep rambling...
I completely agree with this! The "hierarchy" section was about having a reverence for some hierarchy of expertise within the wine industry - recognizing that fresh perspectives are totally valuable and can offer really useful inputs, but that there is a lot to learn if you're a beginner (or even someone at my level) from an industry expert, and that expert guidance should be welcome. I also think a lot of experts these days - including those mentioned - are incredibly welcoming and open-minded, in a way that maybe the wine industry wasn't in the past, so I'm much less worried about experts shutting out fresh perspectives, up-and-coming-regions, and good value wines. In no way said or meant to imply that quality, name brand, or marketing budget are equivalent to price! I hope that's somewhat clear from my content since I'm often talking about "Cult Classic" wines that are from experimental, often great value for money, producers - but in case my thoughts on that weren't clear, totally agree!
I had figured that was mostly your point, but it's so easy to conflate the two or miss one for the other that I felt it was worth pointing out. Also, as I said, this is a bit of a whipping post for me, as I don't think most experts understand Bordeaux these days, so I'm extra sensitive to that. I think the upcoming new class of wine lovers is in for a treat in what is about to come out of the wreckage that is Bordeaux, I am obviously speaking from a place of self interest here, but I also am someone who still remembers buying cases of Cru Beaujolais for much less than it is today.
Anyway, I appreciate your going out on a limb, this is the thing that is most needed in wine writing today. Saying something that not everyone is going to agree with takes guts and it's these sort of perspectives that will make a difference.
Thank you for the incredibly kind note and yes, totally agree it's easy conflate the two and I'm glad you weighed in here. Hope to see you in Bordeaux one day!!
The point is to distinguish between people who want to learn and those who are not open to being educated. Many people have been turned off wine by well-meaning enthusiasts desperate to educate the masses, whether they want it or not. Anybody in a position of authority has to be careful not to reinforce stereotypes of wine snobbery, hence the presumed tolerance of people’s preferences. I’m not saying you are wrong. I am saying that we all need to tread lightly with education. The people in Wset and similar programs have already indicated their sincere interest, but if you dealing with a general audience part of the challenge is gently persuading people without them feeling pushed that learning about wine will be a lifelong source of pleasure.
First, I'm a big fan of your work and honestly very flattered that you even read this and took the time to leave such a thoughtful comment. Second, I completely agree with the notion of gently persuading people that learning about wine can be a lifelong source of pleasure, without making them feel pushed. I also understand that the current "hyper-accessibility" approach is partly a response to decades and decades of true wine snobbery that made people feel excluded and turned off from learning about wine. As a younger wine drinker myself who came into a passion for wine when the attitude of the industry was already much more accessible, I likely lack some perspective on that. To clarify - my concern is just that we've now gone too far in the other direction. It may not have been obvious from my 21 year old taste in Apothic and Yellowtail that I was, in fact, eager to learn about wine, but I'm so glad that didn't stop someone from encouraging me down a better path. I worry that the way we've come to talk to younger wine drinkers assumes a lack of sophistication and willingness to learn which is self-reinforcing and preemptively shuts people out. All that said, you are very much the expert and I do agree with your note. Thanks for taking the time to read this and weigh in.
Thank you for that. What I’ve learned basically boils down to, you can’t tell people what they ought to know, you have to inspire them to want to learn.
Love this take. Not that this has anything to do with AI, but with this so much in everything we do, I think it’s more and more important to have experts in every field. It’s what’s starting to separate those that know what they’re doing and those that don’t. And both parties here are okay, but you also need both parties.
Finding that next level of something you love is precisely why that next level exists. But, we can’t build our ivory towers, because that only makes others not want to climb them.
So again, great take, thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Here’s to not being snobby, but still putting in the work to have the expertise and enjoy the finer things. Cheers, all!
Loved your post — totally agree that wine benefits from a bit of curiosity and effort to understand it properly. We run small, boutique wine tours in Spain (and now Italy) designed to be fun but also educational. We love showing people the fascinating and sometimes complex practices behind the wines they enjoy — from biodynamic vineyards to hands-on winemaking techniques.
It’s amazing how much more rewarding a wine can be when you understand a bit of the story and craft behind it. Thanks for highlighting the value of taking the time to really engage with wine!
This is so interesting! Thank you for writing this, it has made me think a lot about the way I teach as a cheese expert that has a toe in the wine world. I’m definitely in the camp that tells people they can’t be wrong in my class- with the caveat: as long as they are speaking to their own experience, and if they try to state their opinion as fact, I will correct them lol. I think I agree with everything you said, admitting that I also had a visceral reaction at first to the hierarchy bit. The only addendum I might make is a hierarchy of expertise can exist and be good anddd one person’s opinion is as valid as the next, regardless of hierarchy. Some opinions may have more specificity or context or curiosity linked to them, but all are still valid to exist.
Thank you so much for this extremely thoughtful comment and for taking the time to read this! My position is largely the result of the fact that I think we've gone too far in the direction of accessibility and affirmation at this point, but fundamentally I do agree with what you're saying about the validity of everyone's opinion. (Also.... incredibly cool that you're a cheese expert and I'd love to hear more about this at some point!)
And to piggyback on what Reeegan said, what is missing with simply accepting hierarchy is that it should also include knowing the economics of making wine. Sometimes a wine is expensive because of the cost in farming a hillside vineyard by hand. Or it’s the oak barrels used or the work in protecting grapes during a rain or heat wave. Or the uniqueness of the vineyard site. And on the flip side, it’s important to know that cheap wine, harvested by machine, bugs and rodents get picked along with grapes.
Knowing those things you know how much of what you’re paying for is branding, perceived exclusivity, hype, flex appeal, versus true quality.
Same with Hermes vs Chanel vs Louis Vuitton. I tell my female friends it’s worthwhile to understand the workmanship and cost of materials for each brand, rather than simply accept hierarchy and retail price.
Okay, here’s my take. I would add a couple things. One problem with snobbery is that often grows into dismissiveness, which I think is dangerous. While becoming an expert and learning quality, I think it still important to keep humility and an open mind. I have a couple examples of this. In Paso Robles, there are some producers who make iconoclastic, blasphemous styles of wines, blending Zinfandel with Bordeaux and Rhône varietals. It’s not mass-produced plonk like Apothic, but artful, thoughtful blends that challenge traditional styles. While they might not be for everyone, care was taken in the vineyard, barrel selection, blending to create something unique. It’s easy for Francophile wine drinkers to dismiss these wines and throw them in the same category as Apothic.
Pilar compared wine collecting with fashion. I compare it to music. There are those snobs who think classical and jazz are the only worthy genres of music while dismissing rap and electronica. But when you dig deeper, all genres of music have a place in the music world and it’s worthwhile to listen to the best rap sometimes even if you think jazz is what music should be. Even you think Burgundy and Champagne are the finest wines in the world, you shouldn’t dismiss other regions of the world.
Another peeve is an organization called In Pursuit Of Balance. They tried to define what Pinot Noir should be. But in doing so, they created hate and were dismissive to some great CA producers like Kosta Browne, saying they would age poorly and be an alcoholic mess. Recently I opened an old Kosta Brown at a restaurant and shared with my sommelier there. Once he tasted it, he called over all his colleagues to taste. They were all stunned at how elegant and complex it was. And they all admitted to not having tasted Kosta Browne for years due to prejudice in the industry.
And to be clear on price since I mentioned my 21 year old self liking sub $10 bottles - I sadly have yet to come across a sub $10 bottle of wine in the US that I think is good (Europe is different), but that doesn't meant I think price = quality. Not at all! I think it's very nuanced. A $50 bottle can be better than an $100 bottle depending on that factors that went into the price. And from $15ish or $20 and up it's definitely possible to find some good value, quality bottles
I think I did misinterpret what you meant by hierarchy. Lol. But I totally understand and agree with your point now.
I often get asked for a sub-$10 recommendation. That’s when I enjoy teaching about the economics of wine. It’s hard to find a well-made domestic wine at that price point in a place like Napa because land in Napa is expensive. And because the American consumer is more brand-focused than elsewhere in the world. So American brands have to spend a lot more to try and become the next Meiomi or Daou. Knowing the economics, you have to go elsewhere in the world, a region like Rioja, for example where the land might have been farmed for by a family for centuries. Where the vineyard might be more wild and less manicured than a modern vineyard. That’s where the gems lie.
Thank you for clarifying/re-reading haha - I genuinely appreciate it! And completely 100% agreed re studying the economics of wine - there's great value to be found if you know where to look, but there are a lot of factors to consider and become aware of!
Similar to my comment above responding to Reeegan, I totally agree with this! The "hierarchy" section was about respecting hierarchy of expertise within the wine industry - welcoming well-informed opinions about wine so that we all can learn more - rather than about a hierarchy of price, style, or brand name. If anything, I actually think what you said is more of a reason to celebrate expert opinions and give aspiring wine connoisseurs honest feedback! A lot of the greatest experts in wine these days are very open about the fact that quality can be found in many places, many styles, and at many price points. Because wine is complex and there are so many factors in quality, I think we all have a greater chance of discovering and appreciating quality if we welcome people giving honest, open feedback about it. I get that there totally used to be an issue where a lot of wine experts were old fashioned and overly-traditional (the kinds who thought quality could only be found in Bordeaux or Burgundy), but I feel that's changed so much at this point that it's not something we need to be as worried about.
Well you got me with this one. I really do think you're on to something, but I had one thought (more of a hobby horse, really), but I feel like I should address it:
I've spent the last couple years making wine in a quiet corner of Bordeaux where most locals don't even know the appellation exists. Before that, I made wine in Texas. And before that, Long Island. So I'm not exactly steeped in prestige, but I've had a front-row seat to what happens when people confuse that for quality.
I get what you're saying. Wine absolutely should be challenging. It should reward curiosity. And there's nothing snobbish about expecting people to give a damn. But I flinch a little at the hierarchy part, probably because I've just spent multiple essays taking swings at treating classifications like gospel when half of them were drawn up by politicians, not palates.
Here's the thing you get right: effort should be rewarded. But in Bordeaux, I've watched people put tremendous effort into learning all the wrong things. They can recite the 1855 Classification by heart but can't taste the difference between a wine that's alive and one that's technically correct but soulless. That's not discernment...that's memorization.
The hierarchy I want rewards understanding terroir over marketing budgets. Pomerol makes sense to me, it's expensive because the wines are genuinely distinctive, rooted in a place that can't be replicated. But then you have someone charging €30,000 a bottle for what amounts to performance art, or Saint-Émilion's classification that gets reshuffled every decade like a deck of cards.
I've poured wines in million-euro tasting rooms that were dead behind the eyes, wines engineered for scores and stories, chasing trends instead of expressing place. I've also drunk wines that made me rethink what a vineyard could taste like, regardless of what was written on the label.
So yeah, let's raise the bar. Let's reward people for recognizing quality wherever it comes from, whether it's a Grand Cru that's earned its reputation over centuries or a Côtes de Bourg that's just honest about what it is. But let's make sure we're building expertise that actually serves the wine, not just the industry that sells it.
I should probably end this here before I keep rambling...
I completely agree with this! The "hierarchy" section was about having a reverence for some hierarchy of expertise within the wine industry - recognizing that fresh perspectives are totally valuable and can offer really useful inputs, but that there is a lot to learn if you're a beginner (or even someone at my level) from an industry expert, and that expert guidance should be welcome. I also think a lot of experts these days - including those mentioned - are incredibly welcoming and open-minded, in a way that maybe the wine industry wasn't in the past, so I'm much less worried about experts shutting out fresh perspectives, up-and-coming-regions, and good value wines. In no way said or meant to imply that quality, name brand, or marketing budget are equivalent to price! I hope that's somewhat clear from my content since I'm often talking about "Cult Classic" wines that are from experimental, often great value for money, producers - but in case my thoughts on that weren't clear, totally agree!
I had figured that was mostly your point, but it's so easy to conflate the two or miss one for the other that I felt it was worth pointing out. Also, as I said, this is a bit of a whipping post for me, as I don't think most experts understand Bordeaux these days, so I'm extra sensitive to that. I think the upcoming new class of wine lovers is in for a treat in what is about to come out of the wreckage that is Bordeaux, I am obviously speaking from a place of self interest here, but I also am someone who still remembers buying cases of Cru Beaujolais for much less than it is today.
Anyway, I appreciate your going out on a limb, this is the thing that is most needed in wine writing today. Saying something that not everyone is going to agree with takes guts and it's these sort of perspectives that will make a difference.
Thank you for the incredibly kind note and yes, totally agree it's easy conflate the two and I'm glad you weighed in here. Hope to see you in Bordeaux one day!!
Love this. I want to hear more of your rambling! 🙋🏼♂️
I appreciate that. I've been blabbering on about this sort of thing on this platform. One of the posts that I think starts to dovetail with Pilar's piece above is this one if you are so inclined: https://southold.substack.com/p/wine-isnt-for-everyone-anymore-but
Bring back guilds!
The point is to distinguish between people who want to learn and those who are not open to being educated. Many people have been turned off wine by well-meaning enthusiasts desperate to educate the masses, whether they want it or not. Anybody in a position of authority has to be careful not to reinforce stereotypes of wine snobbery, hence the presumed tolerance of people’s preferences. I’m not saying you are wrong. I am saying that we all need to tread lightly with education. The people in Wset and similar programs have already indicated their sincere interest, but if you dealing with a general audience part of the challenge is gently persuading people without them feeling pushed that learning about wine will be a lifelong source of pleasure.
First, I'm a big fan of your work and honestly very flattered that you even read this and took the time to leave such a thoughtful comment. Second, I completely agree with the notion of gently persuading people that learning about wine can be a lifelong source of pleasure, without making them feel pushed. I also understand that the current "hyper-accessibility" approach is partly a response to decades and decades of true wine snobbery that made people feel excluded and turned off from learning about wine. As a younger wine drinker myself who came into a passion for wine when the attitude of the industry was already much more accessible, I likely lack some perspective on that. To clarify - my concern is just that we've now gone too far in the other direction. It may not have been obvious from my 21 year old taste in Apothic and Yellowtail that I was, in fact, eager to learn about wine, but I'm so glad that didn't stop someone from encouraging me down a better path. I worry that the way we've come to talk to younger wine drinkers assumes a lack of sophistication and willingness to learn which is self-reinforcing and preemptively shuts people out. All that said, you are very much the expert and I do agree with your note. Thanks for taking the time to read this and weigh in.
Thank you for that. What I’ve learned basically boils down to, you can’t tell people what they ought to know, you have to inspire them to want to learn.
I agree with this! Thanks again for sharing. Nice to meet you.
Love this take. Not that this has anything to do with AI, but with this so much in everything we do, I think it’s more and more important to have experts in every field. It’s what’s starting to separate those that know what they’re doing and those that don’t. And both parties here are okay, but you also need both parties.
Finding that next level of something you love is precisely why that next level exists. But, we can’t build our ivory towers, because that only makes others not want to climb them.
So again, great take, thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Here’s to not being snobby, but still putting in the work to have the expertise and enjoy the finer things. Cheers, all!
Thanks Michael <3
Hi Pilar,
Loved your post — totally agree that wine benefits from a bit of curiosity and effort to understand it properly. We run small, boutique wine tours in Spain (and now Italy) designed to be fun but also educational. We love showing people the fascinating and sometimes complex practices behind the wines they enjoy — from biodynamic vineyards to hands-on winemaking techniques.
It’s amazing how much more rewarding a wine can be when you understand a bit of the story and craft behind it. Thanks for highlighting the value of taking the time to really engage with wine!
Warm regards,
Tony
Thank you so much for this very thoughtful comment Anthony! Really appreciate it!
no problem , I have sent you a message about wine tours in Spain and Italy. Please give it a read when you get a moment.
This is so interesting! Thank you for writing this, it has made me think a lot about the way I teach as a cheese expert that has a toe in the wine world. I’m definitely in the camp that tells people they can’t be wrong in my class- with the caveat: as long as they are speaking to their own experience, and if they try to state their opinion as fact, I will correct them lol. I think I agree with everything you said, admitting that I also had a visceral reaction at first to the hierarchy bit. The only addendum I might make is a hierarchy of expertise can exist and be good anddd one person’s opinion is as valid as the next, regardless of hierarchy. Some opinions may have more specificity or context or curiosity linked to them, but all are still valid to exist.
Thank you so much for this extremely thoughtful comment and for taking the time to read this! My position is largely the result of the fact that I think we've gone too far in the direction of accessibility and affirmation at this point, but fundamentally I do agree with what you're saying about the validity of everyone's opinion. (Also.... incredibly cool that you're a cheese expert and I'd love to hear more about this at some point!)
And to piggyback on what Reeegan said, what is missing with simply accepting hierarchy is that it should also include knowing the economics of making wine. Sometimes a wine is expensive because of the cost in farming a hillside vineyard by hand. Or it’s the oak barrels used or the work in protecting grapes during a rain or heat wave. Or the uniqueness of the vineyard site. And on the flip side, it’s important to know that cheap wine, harvested by machine, bugs and rodents get picked along with grapes.
Knowing those things you know how much of what you’re paying for is branding, perceived exclusivity, hype, flex appeal, versus true quality.
Same with Hermes vs Chanel vs Louis Vuitton. I tell my female friends it’s worthwhile to understand the workmanship and cost of materials for each brand, rather than simply accept hierarchy and retail price.
Okay, here’s my take. I would add a couple things. One problem with snobbery is that often grows into dismissiveness, which I think is dangerous. While becoming an expert and learning quality, I think it still important to keep humility and an open mind. I have a couple examples of this. In Paso Robles, there are some producers who make iconoclastic, blasphemous styles of wines, blending Zinfandel with Bordeaux and Rhône varietals. It’s not mass-produced plonk like Apothic, but artful, thoughtful blends that challenge traditional styles. While they might not be for everyone, care was taken in the vineyard, barrel selection, blending to create something unique. It’s easy for Francophile wine drinkers to dismiss these wines and throw them in the same category as Apothic.
Pilar compared wine collecting with fashion. I compare it to music. There are those snobs who think classical and jazz are the only worthy genres of music while dismissing rap and electronica. But when you dig deeper, all genres of music have a place in the music world and it’s worthwhile to listen to the best rap sometimes even if you think jazz is what music should be. Even you think Burgundy and Champagne are the finest wines in the world, you shouldn’t dismiss other regions of the world.
Another peeve is an organization called In Pursuit Of Balance. They tried to define what Pinot Noir should be. But in doing so, they created hate and were dismissive to some great CA producers like Kosta Browne, saying they would age poorly and be an alcoholic mess. Recently I opened an old Kosta Brown at a restaurant and shared with my sommelier there. Once he tasted it, he called over all his colleagues to taste. They were all stunned at how elegant and complex it was. And they all admitted to not having tasted Kosta Browne for years due to prejudice in the industry.
And to be clear on price since I mentioned my 21 year old self liking sub $10 bottles - I sadly have yet to come across a sub $10 bottle of wine in the US that I think is good (Europe is different), but that doesn't meant I think price = quality. Not at all! I think it's very nuanced. A $50 bottle can be better than an $100 bottle depending on that factors that went into the price. And from $15ish or $20 and up it's definitely possible to find some good value, quality bottles
I think I did misinterpret what you meant by hierarchy. Lol. But I totally understand and agree with your point now.
I often get asked for a sub-$10 recommendation. That’s when I enjoy teaching about the economics of wine. It’s hard to find a well-made domestic wine at that price point in a place like Napa because land in Napa is expensive. And because the American consumer is more brand-focused than elsewhere in the world. So American brands have to spend a lot more to try and become the next Meiomi or Daou. Knowing the economics, you have to go elsewhere in the world, a region like Rioja, for example where the land might have been farmed for by a family for centuries. Where the vineyard might be more wild and less manicured than a modern vineyard. That’s where the gems lie.
Thank you for clarifying/re-reading haha - I genuinely appreciate it! And completely 100% agreed re studying the economics of wine - there's great value to be found if you know where to look, but there are a lot of factors to consider and become aware of!
Similar to my comment above responding to Reeegan, I totally agree with this! The "hierarchy" section was about respecting hierarchy of expertise within the wine industry - welcoming well-informed opinions about wine so that we all can learn more - rather than about a hierarchy of price, style, or brand name. If anything, I actually think what you said is more of a reason to celebrate expert opinions and give aspiring wine connoisseurs honest feedback! A lot of the greatest experts in wine these days are very open about the fact that quality can be found in many places, many styles, and at many price points. Because wine is complex and there are so many factors in quality, I think we all have a greater chance of discovering and appreciating quality if we welcome people giving honest, open feedback about it. I get that there totally used to be an issue where a lot of wine experts were old fashioned and overly-traditional (the kinds who thought quality could only be found in Bordeaux or Burgundy), but I feel that's changed so much at this point that it's not something we need to be as worried about.